i have found the relationship between christ / christianity and bitcoiners / bitcoin to be very strong and very relevant. love that more folks are finding these relationships and sharing their thoughts publicly! +1.
John, all of a sudden you’re no longer just the shirtless Bitcoin podcaster.
You’ve created a masterwork on par with and in many ways deeper than the best work of the other notable Bitcoin writers. Thank you! Is there a book on the way?
I read this article yesterday and i cant stop thinking about , i dont even know who to share it with because i dont know anyone else who is into this stuff but this is just an amazing piece of work. As an avid follower of JP you can imagine how fascinating this was for me and it just makes me want to explore the topic more. But truth be told there is this always this nagging feeling i have when i read stuff like this saying , what if this is a cult, i dont want to be in a cult or turn into some kind of worshipping bitcoin thing but the case you presented here is compelling nevertheless.
Thank you, I'm really glad to hear that you enjoyed it. Trust me, I don't want to be in a cult either, lol. But what I DO want to do, is pursue truth, and be willing and courageous enough to go wherever that pursuit may lead me. I believe that truth often has the effect of 'compelling' behaviour, due to the fact that it cannot be 'argued with'. And this is indeed what I seek, I seek to be compelled to align myself, my behaviour, with the greatest (or 'truest') truths which I am able to perceive. If others do the same, and if the pursuit is 'on the right path' or at least 'directionally correct', it stands to reason that the behaviours thereby elicited in those people, will tend to be similar, as they are being inspired or compelled by a similar 'force'. As long as everyone remains humble, and primarily dedicated to their own pursuit of truth, and not to the adherence to certain behaviours that others have prescribed, I don't see much danger in *actually* being in a cult, or otherwise part of a community that is 'unhealthy' or 'detrimental'. That said, as we are dealing with topics of the utmost significance here, around which there is widespread ignorance and taboo, it is inevitable that in our attempts to make public our pursuit of understanding, many will misinterpret and criticize it. I believe it's important to accept this fact and move forward regardless, lest it become a critical impediment to such pursuits.
Love your articles! I see things differently now. Was a true believer in Bitcoin before, but now i see a deeper meaning to it. I pass your words and wisdom to others. Many Thanks!
John, I don’t know if you remember but on one of our runs in Miami you mentioned you weren’t that fond of writing, I can only imagine you were being modest because you just dropped a masterpiece. The sheer scope and size along with the challenge of tying together abstract but very real ideas makes this a work of art imo.
I probably fall short of the intellectual caliber of reader this was intended for so it was a challenge for me. It took me a couple weeks of processing to really internalize the ideas in the essay and I'm still in the process. There was supplementary reading I had to do and I got into some Jordan Peterson lectures to go along with your piece, but the clarity I came away with made the whole undertaking well worth it.
If you forced me to give you a critique it would be that there were a couple sections the material became dense and esoteric. I could see how a reader might want something tangible to grasp. But if you ask me, the process of unpacking those ideas myself and relating them to my own unique experiences was the work where the learning happened.
I did appreciate you bringing into attention the time and brain power JP put into formulating each sentence of his work. It motivated me to push through. I thought to myself if JP was willing to put this amount of effort into writing these words, the least I could do is make the effort to comprehend what he is trying to convey. Also thanks for humbling yourself, knowing that you didn't make sense of his writing on first pass made the journey feel less lonely.
As far as your material itself, I think it’s a seminal piece of work for anyone exploring the metaphysics of Bitcoin and the epistemology of markets.
What I came away with is a deeper understanding how Bitcoin has the potential to fundamentally and radically alter the nature of our reality. Through sacrifice and trade, we now have a measure of value and method to communicate that value that allows for a much more accurate representation of our collective internal value hierarchies to harmoniously emerge from markets. Thinking of money in this way, as an extension of ourselves, made my understanding of Bitcoin more spiritual in its nature. Your essay was one of those reading endeavors that opened up my consciousness to a new level of awareness of how we’re connected and the role money plays in uniting those connections.
There’s so much more I could get into, rabbit holes galore with this one, but I think you're mapping out a very necessary area of exploration. The rationalists want to throw out religion with no regard for the historical psychological significance it has had in propelling civilization forward. You would think that maybe there's something there that we need to understand.
Personally I'm a Christian and I gather you take a less committed approach, but your essay made my convictions stronger through adding context and a framework to understand the significance religion has on defining our internal order of values and the role money has in expressing that order. I believe Christians should be much more aware of the money they use. It's not just some abstraction to take lightly. It's a mechanism to capture and transfer our life force. A life force that comes from our sacrifice. Sacrifices made in harmony with our value hierarchy, a value hierarchy which has at the top of it God. So we must be aware of the divine link between God, ourselves and money. Corruption in that connection should be something unholy to remedy. Fiat not only distorts the connection to the divine but it reroutes it to wickedness. Christians would do well to become aware of it.
I should wrap this up, but I wanted to say one more thing. I saw the movie "It's A Wonderful Life" over Christmas. In the movie the protagonist George Bailey is shown by his guardian angel what life in his town would be like if he never came to exist. I related it to your piece because what we see is an alternative reality where the market comes to be dominated by a crony capitalist named Potter. Someone we could imagine to be the type that sits close to the money spigot and tilt the scales his way. To go on, with George never there to compete, his value hierarchy based on Christian principles is never expressed in the market. Instead it's Potter who externalizes his value hierarchy which and at the top of it is not the Christian God but rather 'wealth and power'. The town goes from a wholesome family oriented place to one of vices and debauchery. I thought it was a good depiction of some the big ideas you were expressing in your essay.
Anyway, I could go on and on. I got several pages of ramblings and notes. Would love to catch up and talk more in depth about it. Thank you again for putting this together. Really good stuff.
Hey brother. Firstly, I very much appreciate the detailed feedback, and it brings a smile to my face to know that you got value from this piece. And to your first comment, it was no false modesty lol. I find writing to be more challenging than speaking, though I did learn a lot in writing this piece, and hope to take those learnings into subsequent pieces, and make the process less 'painful'. There is a lot here, and I appreciate it can be dense or esoteric in parts. Each section could easily have been a chapter, if not a full book in itself. I toyed with the idea of just going for it and writing a book, but I thought it best to get these ideas out there percolating as broadly as possible, to see what kind of feedback, conversations and fresh insights might emerge as a result. I'l continue taking notes and expanding on the ideas, and if I feel like they deserve the 'treatment' of a book, and if there's interest in it, I may do so down the road. Anyways, far too much to discuss to type here, so I'll instead look forward to a jam online or in-person in the new year. Appreciate you brother. Be well. JV
Wow. Masterfully put. Im super excited to continue seeing what you produce. Loved this piece, its really helpful as well. My girlfriend is Christian and even though she is apprehensive and skeptical regarding the religious angle on bitcoin, it resonates so well woth her and allows us to communicate the spiritual and religious experience/transformation occuring within us. Watching bitcoiners articulate and express themselves during this never ending journey is a blessing to witness. On another note, I'm curious if you've investigated ideas surrounding the physical merging humans and machines. Previously, we've been use to interacting with phones or computer, externally with only few having embedded devices inside themselves (usually for health reasons). Now, we're getting closer to incorporating technology invasively, particularly I'm thinking of Neuralink. I wonder if bitcoin will play a big role in that drama 🤔 My guess is for some technical reason we're somehow going to be more intimate with the bitcoin network in the future, 😉wdyt?
Hey Masud, thanks so much for the kind remarks, and I'm very glad to hear you and your girlfriend found it interesting and helpful. I haven't thought too much about human/machine symbiosis. It seems like a natural progression given the current trajectory we are on (interacting with digital environments more and more). I suppose it stands to reason that this alone might suggest we would become more intimate with the bitcoin network in the future. I'll give it some more thought in the coming weeks. Thanks for the thought / question:)
Bravo! …God is…science is of and from God…Bitcoin is and of science! Bitcoin is a revelation from God that is supernatural and so must be contemplated. Thank you! Subscribed.
John, excellent and astounding articulation of what so many of us are feeling deep inside being a part of this peaceful revolution that is not only transforming each of us internally as we realize Bitcoin embodies much of if not most or all of what we have learned in our personal spiritual quests, but it's transforming structures of the world inside out through people who know Bitcoin is something special. The TAO that can be named or spoke is not the eternal TAO.. words are only sign posts pointing to that which can only be experienced. When I saw @breedlove22 recommend your post, I did not hesitate to dedicate my morning to reading. I am now an avid subscriber and am so happy to be one of a growing number of humans that see this mountain growing as we approach it from miles away. So excited amd thankful to you and others like Peterson who not only have to ability to formulate concepts and synthesize so many genres together into a cohesive message, but maybe even more importantly, have the internal fortitude to put the necessary effort in to do just that and share it with the world. So much of what you have written here was swirling in my head and spirit the last few years as I believe Bitcoin is far more than what all of us can point our finger on, certainly more than the best performing investment in history lol :) And I thank you for crafting such a beautiful thought for all of us to enjoy, and open our minds further toward the contemplation of these ideas.
Thanks so much for the kind words, Jey. It's so interesting to me that these ideas have been floating around in your head for a while now too. How many more is that true for?! I hope this piece serves to generate more conversation and expression around such topics (and embolden people to share them), so that we can more capably and collaboratively explore and refine them. All the best! JV
Excellent work John, my nodding along got more and more enthusiastic as I progressed through the article. Going from each to their own analog developing hierarchy of valuation to a shared digitally exact approach to a hierarchy of valuations might just bring about the millennial kingdom or something to that effect. I look forward to further discussions like we had at Ola’s on bitcoin beach.
This is masterfully written, John! Thanks for attempting to bridge Jordan Peterson’s work with Bitcoin.
At the end of the day, what we’re fundamentally talking about as far as I’m concerned, is the unification of ALL religious thought with the scientific process itself.
Not only does Bitcoin unite humankind on a new monetary layer, but by doing so it shines light on the Truths of religions themselves.
In that sense, it’s not only an economic singularity, but a religious singularity.
After all, the term “apocalypse” translates to unveiling of great truths that redefine reality, and Bitcoin is nothing short of that.
Thank you brother, and I couldn't agree more. It's a difficult convergence or mystery to wrap ones head around, but here we are, inspired to keep trying to understand or uncover it. We may be totally wrong, but the pursuit nevertheless seems incredibly worthwhile. Cheers!
Agree completely. I have been on the same journey. I credit George Gilder’s pamphlet “The 21st Century Case for Gold: A New Information Theory of Money” as having put me on this path. Are you familiar with it?
i have found the relationship between christ / christianity and bitcoiners / bitcoin to be very strong and very relevant. love that more folks are finding these relationships and sharing their thoughts publicly! +1.
Seems worth exploring to me!
mhmm. enough to build a communication / community platform free of censorship to talk about these important relationships! whoot.
John, all of a sudden you’re no longer just the shirtless Bitcoin podcaster.
You’ve created a masterwork on par with and in many ways deeper than the best work of the other notable Bitcoin writers. Thank you! Is there a book on the way?
Expanding my range I guess, lol. Thank you, Charles:)
I read this article yesterday and i cant stop thinking about , i dont even know who to share it with because i dont know anyone else who is into this stuff but this is just an amazing piece of work. As an avid follower of JP you can imagine how fascinating this was for me and it just makes me want to explore the topic more. But truth be told there is this always this nagging feeling i have when i read stuff like this saying , what if this is a cult, i dont want to be in a cult or turn into some kind of worshipping bitcoin thing but the case you presented here is compelling nevertheless.
Thank you, I'm really glad to hear that you enjoyed it. Trust me, I don't want to be in a cult either, lol. But what I DO want to do, is pursue truth, and be willing and courageous enough to go wherever that pursuit may lead me. I believe that truth often has the effect of 'compelling' behaviour, due to the fact that it cannot be 'argued with'. And this is indeed what I seek, I seek to be compelled to align myself, my behaviour, with the greatest (or 'truest') truths which I am able to perceive. If others do the same, and if the pursuit is 'on the right path' or at least 'directionally correct', it stands to reason that the behaviours thereby elicited in those people, will tend to be similar, as they are being inspired or compelled by a similar 'force'. As long as everyone remains humble, and primarily dedicated to their own pursuit of truth, and not to the adherence to certain behaviours that others have prescribed, I don't see much danger in *actually* being in a cult, or otherwise part of a community that is 'unhealthy' or 'detrimental'. That said, as we are dealing with topics of the utmost significance here, around which there is widespread ignorance and taboo, it is inevitable that in our attempts to make public our pursuit of understanding, many will misinterpret and criticize it. I believe it's important to accept this fact and move forward regardless, lest it become a critical impediment to such pursuits.
Love your articles! I see things differently now. Was a true believer in Bitcoin before, but now i see a deeper meaning to it. I pass your words and wisdom to others. Many Thanks!
John, I don’t know if you remember but on one of our runs in Miami you mentioned you weren’t that fond of writing, I can only imagine you were being modest because you just dropped a masterpiece. The sheer scope and size along with the challenge of tying together abstract but very real ideas makes this a work of art imo.
I probably fall short of the intellectual caliber of reader this was intended for so it was a challenge for me. It took me a couple weeks of processing to really internalize the ideas in the essay and I'm still in the process. There was supplementary reading I had to do and I got into some Jordan Peterson lectures to go along with your piece, but the clarity I came away with made the whole undertaking well worth it.
If you forced me to give you a critique it would be that there were a couple sections the material became dense and esoteric. I could see how a reader might want something tangible to grasp. But if you ask me, the process of unpacking those ideas myself and relating them to my own unique experiences was the work where the learning happened.
I did appreciate you bringing into attention the time and brain power JP put into formulating each sentence of his work. It motivated me to push through. I thought to myself if JP was willing to put this amount of effort into writing these words, the least I could do is make the effort to comprehend what he is trying to convey. Also thanks for humbling yourself, knowing that you didn't make sense of his writing on first pass made the journey feel less lonely.
As far as your material itself, I think it’s a seminal piece of work for anyone exploring the metaphysics of Bitcoin and the epistemology of markets.
What I came away with is a deeper understanding how Bitcoin has the potential to fundamentally and radically alter the nature of our reality. Through sacrifice and trade, we now have a measure of value and method to communicate that value that allows for a much more accurate representation of our collective internal value hierarchies to harmoniously emerge from markets. Thinking of money in this way, as an extension of ourselves, made my understanding of Bitcoin more spiritual in its nature. Your essay was one of those reading endeavors that opened up my consciousness to a new level of awareness of how we’re connected and the role money plays in uniting those connections.
There’s so much more I could get into, rabbit holes galore with this one, but I think you're mapping out a very necessary area of exploration. The rationalists want to throw out religion with no regard for the historical psychological significance it has had in propelling civilization forward. You would think that maybe there's something there that we need to understand.
Personally I'm a Christian and I gather you take a less committed approach, but your essay made my convictions stronger through adding context and a framework to understand the significance religion has on defining our internal order of values and the role money has in expressing that order. I believe Christians should be much more aware of the money they use. It's not just some abstraction to take lightly. It's a mechanism to capture and transfer our life force. A life force that comes from our sacrifice. Sacrifices made in harmony with our value hierarchy, a value hierarchy which has at the top of it God. So we must be aware of the divine link between God, ourselves and money. Corruption in that connection should be something unholy to remedy. Fiat not only distorts the connection to the divine but it reroutes it to wickedness. Christians would do well to become aware of it.
I should wrap this up, but I wanted to say one more thing. I saw the movie "It's A Wonderful Life" over Christmas. In the movie the protagonist George Bailey is shown by his guardian angel what life in his town would be like if he never came to exist. I related it to your piece because what we see is an alternative reality where the market comes to be dominated by a crony capitalist named Potter. Someone we could imagine to be the type that sits close to the money spigot and tilt the scales his way. To go on, with George never there to compete, his value hierarchy based on Christian principles is never expressed in the market. Instead it's Potter who externalizes his value hierarchy which and at the top of it is not the Christian God but rather 'wealth and power'. The town goes from a wholesome family oriented place to one of vices and debauchery. I thought it was a good depiction of some the big ideas you were expressing in your essay.
Anyway, I could go on and on. I got several pages of ramblings and notes. Would love to catch up and talk more in depth about it. Thank you again for putting this together. Really good stuff.
Be well Brother.
Hey brother. Firstly, I very much appreciate the detailed feedback, and it brings a smile to my face to know that you got value from this piece. And to your first comment, it was no false modesty lol. I find writing to be more challenging than speaking, though I did learn a lot in writing this piece, and hope to take those learnings into subsequent pieces, and make the process less 'painful'. There is a lot here, and I appreciate it can be dense or esoteric in parts. Each section could easily have been a chapter, if not a full book in itself. I toyed with the idea of just going for it and writing a book, but I thought it best to get these ideas out there percolating as broadly as possible, to see what kind of feedback, conversations and fresh insights might emerge as a result. I'l continue taking notes and expanding on the ideas, and if I feel like they deserve the 'treatment' of a book, and if there's interest in it, I may do so down the road. Anyways, far too much to discuss to type here, so I'll instead look forward to a jam online or in-person in the new year. Appreciate you brother. Be well. JV
Wow. Masterfully put. Im super excited to continue seeing what you produce. Loved this piece, its really helpful as well. My girlfriend is Christian and even though she is apprehensive and skeptical regarding the religious angle on bitcoin, it resonates so well woth her and allows us to communicate the spiritual and religious experience/transformation occuring within us. Watching bitcoiners articulate and express themselves during this never ending journey is a blessing to witness. On another note, I'm curious if you've investigated ideas surrounding the physical merging humans and machines. Previously, we've been use to interacting with phones or computer, externally with only few having embedded devices inside themselves (usually for health reasons). Now, we're getting closer to incorporating technology invasively, particularly I'm thinking of Neuralink. I wonder if bitcoin will play a big role in that drama 🤔 My guess is for some technical reason we're somehow going to be more intimate with the bitcoin network in the future, 😉wdyt?
Hey Masud, thanks so much for the kind remarks, and I'm very glad to hear you and your girlfriend found it interesting and helpful. I haven't thought too much about human/machine symbiosis. It seems like a natural progression given the current trajectory we are on (interacting with digital environments more and more). I suppose it stands to reason that this alone might suggest we would become more intimate with the bitcoin network in the future. I'll give it some more thought in the coming weeks. Thanks for the thought / question:)
Bravo! …God is…science is of and from God…Bitcoin is and of science! Bitcoin is a revelation from God that is supernatural and so must be contemplated. Thank you! Subscribed.
Thanks, Robert!
John, excellent and astounding articulation of what so many of us are feeling deep inside being a part of this peaceful revolution that is not only transforming each of us internally as we realize Bitcoin embodies much of if not most or all of what we have learned in our personal spiritual quests, but it's transforming structures of the world inside out through people who know Bitcoin is something special. The TAO that can be named or spoke is not the eternal TAO.. words are only sign posts pointing to that which can only be experienced. When I saw @breedlove22 recommend your post, I did not hesitate to dedicate my morning to reading. I am now an avid subscriber and am so happy to be one of a growing number of humans that see this mountain growing as we approach it from miles away. So excited amd thankful to you and others like Peterson who not only have to ability to formulate concepts and synthesize so many genres together into a cohesive message, but maybe even more importantly, have the internal fortitude to put the necessary effort in to do just that and share it with the world. So much of what you have written here was swirling in my head and spirit the last few years as I believe Bitcoin is far more than what all of us can point our finger on, certainly more than the best performing investment in history lol :) And I thank you for crafting such a beautiful thought for all of us to enjoy, and open our minds further toward the contemplation of these ideas.
Jey Cryptz
Thanks so much for the kind words, Jey. It's so interesting to me that these ideas have been floating around in your head for a while now too. How many more is that true for?! I hope this piece serves to generate more conversation and expression around such topics (and embolden people to share them), so that we can more capably and collaboratively explore and refine them. All the best! JV
Excellent work John, my nodding along got more and more enthusiastic as I progressed through the article. Going from each to their own analog developing hierarchy of valuation to a shared digitally exact approach to a hierarchy of valuations might just bring about the millennial kingdom or something to that effect. I look forward to further discussions like we had at Ola’s on bitcoin beach.
Thanks brother! Look forward to chatting with you about it next time we share a few beers:)
John, very interesting but not surprising. You may find my new book useful in your pursuit: The Christian Case for Bitcoin:
https://www.amazon.com/Christian-Case-Bitcoin-redeems-Christians-ebook/dp/B09NCH6BZQ/ref=zg_bsnr_158333011_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=2MS8K2PC87DFT2YR74R4
Thanks for the recommendation, Patrick!
This is masterfully written, John! Thanks for attempting to bridge Jordan Peterson’s work with Bitcoin.
At the end of the day, what we’re fundamentally talking about as far as I’m concerned, is the unification of ALL religious thought with the scientific process itself.
Not only does Bitcoin unite humankind on a new monetary layer, but by doing so it shines light on the Truths of religions themselves.
In that sense, it’s not only an economic singularity, but a religious singularity.
After all, the term “apocalypse” translates to unveiling of great truths that redefine reality, and Bitcoin is nothing short of that.
Thank you brother, and I couldn't agree more. It's a difficult convergence or mystery to wrap ones head around, but here we are, inspired to keep trying to understand or uncover it. We may be totally wrong, but the pursuit nevertheless seems incredibly worthwhile. Cheers!
Agree completely. I have been on the same journey. I credit George Gilder’s pamphlet “The 21st Century Case for Gold: A New Information Theory of Money” as having put me on this path. Are you familiar with it?
Hello John, I would love to listen to this as audio !;) Is there a version ( planned? , maybe from Bitcoin Audible)? J